Young Scrappy Money Podcast Ep. 036: The Four Financial Languages (and how to use them!) with Tarra Jackson

podcast Feb 23, 2020

Are you a Saver, an Investor, a Giver, or a Spender? Tarra Jackson, also known as Madam Money®, unpacks the differences between these four financial languages, as well as gives tips for articulating your needs and communicating with people whose financial language might be different than your own! Join us for some real juicy tidbits on better understanding and communicating your money habits!

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Full transcript:

INTRO: [00:00:00] Hello. And welcome to the Young Scrappy Money podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Waymire. And each week, I’ll be bringing you tips and tricks to help you take control of your finances as well as interviews with people who made big financial changes in their own lives. So join us. And we’ll help you get your financial s**t together. 

MICHELLE: Hello, everybody. And welcome, welcome to another episode of the Young Scrappy Money podcast. Today we are talking about communication. Previously on this podcast, we’ve had a guest on before to help us talk a little bit better about money. 

But honestly, in my personal experience, talking about money is one of the most terrifying things there is. Most people get nervous about it. And so the more tools that you have at your disposal to start to have these conversations with loved ones, people in your life, people in the workplace, I think all of that is even better. 

So in order to build on our knowledge of talking about money, I’ve got a very special guest with me today. Tarra Jackson is also known as Madam Money, which the name says it all. Like she’s clearly the boss here. 

She’s also the author of the best-selling book Financial Fornication. And she’s got a new book out all about communicating about money called The 4 Financial Languages. Tarra is a personal finance expert, animated international speaker, and also the founder of DUALpreneur. So welcome, Tarra. It is a delight to have you.

TARRA: Thank you for having me. So excited to talk to you again.

MICHELLE: Yeah. So I think kick us off. Tell us a little bit more information about your background. Like how did you get into this work?

TARRA: Oh, that’s hilarious. Well, when I was younger, I really thought I wanted to be a doctor when I grew up, and that kind of didn’t pan out. I ended up getting a job at a financial institution when I was in high school. And from there, I just matriculated all the way up to interim president and CEO of a credit union in Atlanta, Georgia. 

So my job choice to get some extra money actually guided my way into the business. And as I was going through the business, I had a lot of clients that had challenges, financial challenges in understanding money. And then after me being— after I stopped being judgmental of them, I realized that I had just as many challenges as they had. 

So I was able to tell them what to do, but I wasn’t even practicing it in my own life. And so that’s when I started, you know, educating not just for the people outside, but for me as well. So the more I learned, the more I decided to share. And it became a passion of mine to help people avoid the major money mistakes that I made, and to learn new strategies to build wealth, and to, you know, live a financially free lifestyle. 

And financially free is very relative. And that’s why I tell people, don’t let anyone— allow other people to tell you what financially free is for you. So I help them to determine what their financial freedom is and help guide them to get there. So it’s just been a passion of mine.

MICHELLE: That’s wonderful. And I love that you— you’ve mentioned that you found personal finance kind of through a more traditional channel. I mean, I took a similar approach that I— my first job out of grad school, I worked for a mutual fund company. 

And I didn’t really know anything about like budgeting and debt and all the really hands-on personal finance stuff. I just dove straight into the more professional world and then kind of came at it the same way you did. So I think that’s funny that our backgrounds are aligned like that. 

So let’s talk a little bit about your new book, 4 Financial Languages. What— when you say financial language, can you define that for us? What does this mean?

TARRA: Absolutely. It is the way that we communicate, think, and execute money, our finances. And we do it in different ways. And we learn the language in different ways, whether it’s from our surroundings, from our environment, from education, whether we choose to learn it through education, or we are taught it through education, through experience, experiential, you know, what we’ve experienced. 

And that all helps to shape our linguistics— not only how we talk, but also how we think and communicate about money as well. Just like there are five love languages— and I love that book. But I— my argument is that we also speak in different financial languages. 

That’s why certain languages argue about money all the time. And so once we understand what our language is, we understand how we need to be communicated about money. But we also can understand how we need to communicate with others about money as well.

MICHELLE: I love it. So what are the four financial languages then? Can you walk us through them?

[00:05:04] TARRA: Absolutely. They’re very simple. The four financial languages are saving, spending, investing, and giving. And you may find that savers and spenders usually argue about money because they are speaking definitely different languages. One is speaking Greek. The other is speaking Spanish. 

And although they may be saying the same thing, because they don’t understand each other, that is what causes the cash conflict or the dollar disagreement. So for example, a saver may tell a spender, you know, you need to stop spending. And you need to get on a budget. 

Well, as soon as the saver hears budget— I mean, the spender hears budget, we hear diet, die, deprivation, I can’t, bondage, all the negative words you can think of. And so we— and if you tell a spender not to spend money, they’re going to retaliate and spend their money, your money, and everybody else’s money. So you have to be very careful in the words that you use because words do matter. 

Because they trigger. And I talk about triggers in my book, that they can produce positive and negative triggers. And it’s just like with savers. If a spender goes to a saver and talk about spending all the time, and they’re never talking about how to put money aside, it’s gonna freak the saver out. 

So if a saver’s savings account gets below a certain threshold, they will freak out. And they’ll start hoarding money and hiding money because they’re in it. You know, their pleasure principle is safety, security, and control. 

And as far as an investor, investors and savers argue about money as well. And if they don’t argue about money, they disagree about money. Because, of course, savers need safety, security, and control. But investors understand that reward is based on the relative risk. 

And so they understand they may lose money, or they may lose all their money. But they’re OK because they can always get it back. But a saver is— is very risk-averse. So you find they conflict. 

And the giver, the giver is very unique. Because the giver is naturally fiscally bilingual. They naturally speak another financial language. 

So for example, a giver who has the ability to give money is probably also a saver. A giver who gives gifts is probably also a spender. And a giver who likes to give to businesses or an angel investor is probably also an investor. 

But the key thing with— the key thing with givers is that sometimes they have a tendency of giving, giving, giving without giving to themselves. So we have to remind the giver that it’s OK to spend, save, and invest on themselves so that they have enough money or the ability to help and give to other people as well.

MICHELLE: So the saver, the spender, the investor, and the giver, those are— those are the four financial languages. So that’s kind of like your primary goal with your money or the primary lens through which you view it.

TARRA: That is your primary, or your dominant, financial language. So for example, if I were to give you a million dollars, drop it into your bank account, and nobody else knew about it except you, what is the first thing you would want to do? Not what you should do, not what you’re supposed to do, but what would bring you the most pleasure to do first? Even though you can do them all, but what would bring you the most pleasure to do it first? 

Me, I’d probably want to spend it somewhere, and go hide, and, you know, be off Facebook for a long time. So I’m probably gonna spend a little bit first. And somebody may say, well, I’m going to put some money aside because you never know. That’s probably a saver. 

Another person said, you know what? I’m going to invest in real estate. Or, I’m going to invest in the stock market. So they’re looking for a return on investment. So the first thing they’ll want to do is to invest. 

And the giver may say, I want to give to my church. I’m going to tithe. Or, I’m going to donate this amount of money first. And then I’m gonna spend the rest or do whatever with the rest.

MICHELLE: Oh, that’s fascinating. I love that as a litmus test for what language you speak. Because that was my next question. How do you know what you are? So part of it is like the gut instinct of, if you were given a million dollars, what would you do with it?

TARRA: Exactly. And it’s based on the pleasure principle, not what you’re supposed to do. Because I know that I’m supposed to save, invest, and give first before I spend. Right? But what gives me a pleasure principle— because a spender— because I am. I’m a dominant spender. 

Is our pleasure principle is spending, right? It’s the transaction. And so there’s something very organic and orgasmic about the transaction. 

Because that’s why you may find spenders who have a whole lot of clothes and shoes with the price tag still on or in boxes that they never wore. It’s not the clothes and the shoes that they like. It’s the transaction that makes them feel good. It’s just the clothes and the shoes are the vice to do what they really want to do. 

And you know, some people, it’s food and alcohol. Some people, it’s electronics. Some people, it’s cars. And so there’s a vice that’s there. 

[00:10:01] But it’s normally the transaction that is the pleasure principle. So when you can identify what your true pleasure principle is, that’s gonna help you determine what your dominant financial language is.

MICHELLE: Oh, I love that. I think I’m an investor.

TARRA: OK. I would— I would say so too. Because you invest, and you speak investor language too. The whole thing about investors, right? Investors and savers are probably the most judgmental languages of the four. 

MICHELLE: (LAUGHING) I’d believe that. 

TARRA: And the reason— and the reason why is because a saver says, if you save your money, you’ll be OK. And the investor says, if you just shut up and do what I tell you to do and invest your money, you’re gonna be OK. And the spender and the giver is like, I don’t care what you say. I’m gonna invest and— I’m going to spend, and I’m going to give. Right? 

And investors are unique because of the language they speak. They speak a lot of jargon. And they expect everyone else to really understand their jargon. They forget that 90% of the world really don’t— we don’t understand a lot of the things or the words or the terminology that they use. 

And so investors, the best way to get a spender, saver, or giver to start investing is to speak in their language. So you have to teach a spender how to spend money on investments to make more money so they can spend it later. That’s how you pretty much get them in for retirement investing. 

You know, you want to spend more money later? Hey, let’s spend a little bit of this money into this investment so you can get a return on your investment. And you’ll have more money to spend later. 

If an investor wants a saver to spend, because a saver is risk-averse, you have to assure them that their threshold will not be touched. You’re just gonna invest a little bit so they can get a return on their investment so they can save more. And the same thing as a giver, if they give to themselves and put it in an investment, they can get that return on investment so they have the ability to give more to others or to themselves later.

MICHELLE: Yeah. Do you find that there are types of financial languages that are particularly difficult to see eye to eye on? Or is it sort of like a level playing field in terms of communication?

TARRA: Well, they’re all equal in level. So a saver is not better than a giver, not better than investor, not better than a spender. Right? What makes them challenging is the excess if they overspend, over-give, over-save, over-invest, right? 

So anything in excess can make anything bad. It’s just that you have some people that are dead set that their way is the only way. Right? So you may have a saver that says, you know, I don’t want to get in that investing thing because everybody’s losing money. 

I don’t want to overspend because I don’t want to be like my parents or other people who are struggling. And I’m not gonna give all my money away. Because what happens if I need to? 

So they start hoarding the cash. And they believe that if you just save, and you— you’re very frugal, and you’re, you know, at a point of cheap, all is gonna be right with the world. And so they’re not really open to learn the different financial languages. 

So it’s more relative to the person and how stubborn they may be with their language. But usually people are very open to learn other languages, especially when you take the time to learn their language, and communicate in their language, and then teach them the other languages in their language. That’s what’s important as well.

MICHELLE: Yeah. I love that. Because I think you— when I think of this as like a financial coach, a lot of the literature in our world, especially when working with couples, is sort of, who’s the saver? Who’s the spender? 

Sometimes you’re both savers, or you’re both spenders. But we think of that as kind of being a main point of tension is like one of you wants to save the money. And one of you wants to spend it. 

But I love, you know, thinking about it’s not really just saving and spending and that even people who are both long-term-minded, like the investor and the saver, can butt heads. Because they don’t necessarily agree on the best long-term approach. 

TARRA: Mm-hmm, exactly. And so what it is is when someone says, “Who’s the saver, and who’s the spender?,” the person who invests or gives, they’re usually lumped into the spender side, which is not necessarily the case. Right? And so a lot of the communication that goes out there on how we communicate is that the saver is better than the spender, which is not the case either. 

So when you’re in— and I am usually brought into marriage counseling. So when the marriage counselor feels that the contention of the situation is financial, that’s when I get to come in and listen to them, interpret what they’re saying, and then translate to each one of them. Right? Because they’re usually speaking different languages.

But they’re saying the same thing. Right? They both want to retire. They both want to be financially free. They both want to do things. And it’s very similar what they want to do. 

[00:15:02] It’s just that they’re communicating and executing in different ways. And because they are speaking different languages, they’re always arguing about money. Because they handle money differently, they’re always arguing about money. 

But they— you know, they don’t want to learn. Like the saver doesn’t want to learn the spender’s language. Right? And the spender really doesn’t wanna learn the saver’s language. 

Because the spender doesn’t want to talk budget. Because we feel like it’s bondage. We see a budget as what we can’t do. So if a saver says, hey, let’s talk about a spending plan to talk about what we can spend and how we can spend it— and spending it can be on savings and investing and giving. We can spend money on those. 

But the spender needs to know, what can I spend the money on? And if I am spending it on savings, investing, and giving as well as other things that I want, I’m more open to that. Now you have me saving and investing.

MICHELLE: Yeah. I mean, it almost sounds like ideally even if we all have one primary language, the ideal balance is that you do all of them.

TARRA: Yeah. So the— and it’s just like— so for example, if I had moved to Spain, but I speak English, if I only speak English in Spain, it’s not gonna serve me. Because no one’s gonna really understand what I’m saying. Maybe a few people will understand what I’m saying. 

But if I want to live there permanently, and I want to communicate, and I want to be a part of the culture, I have to learn that language. Because learning Spanish will serve me. Right? So it’s the same thing is that when we learn saving, spending, investing, and giving, and we learn all four of those languages, we can speak them when it serves us. 

So we can speak savings when we’re talking about we need to build an emergency plan or an opportunity fund. I can speak investing when I’m talking about, hey, I want to retire. But I want to build— I want my money to make money, or I want to invest in businesses, or I want to invest in real estate. Because I want to have more money to do whatever. 

We can speak giving because the number one law of prosperity is to give. We can speak— you know, we can speak spending and spend wisely. You know, I— and the way you spend wisely is spenders need boundaries. 

If we have access to the cash, we are going to spend it. So what I have to do is I have to remove access from the cash. So I put it in an account that is not attached to my transactional accounts. It’s in a credit union in another state. I don’t have an ATM or debit card. 

And if I need the money, they’re gonna have to wire it or transfer it. And it’s gonna take at least 24 hours. So that gives me at least 24 hours to think about what I’m gonna do with that money. And so once you understand your language, and then you learn how to communicate, you can better speak or understand and communicate when it serves you the best.

MICHELLE: Yeah. 

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MICHELLE: So I mean, it sounds like— I mean, you’ve mentioned a couple good tips for communicating with somebody who has a different language than you, which is really— it’s on you to start to learn the rest of them. But what other tips do you have for communicating with somebody, especially if you’re close? Maybe you live in the same household, and there’s no escaping these kinds of discussions. What— how can people make that process easier on themselves?

TARRA: I think back to Chapman’s book, The 5 Love Languages. And what he was trying to say is that everybody loves in a different way. So if you love— if the way you feel love is through touch, and I feel love through affirmation, me telling you how great you are is not gonna fill your love tank up. 

Because you require some form of touch. And so in order for me to love you, it’s about you. If I’m married to you, I need to love you the way you need to be loved so you feel loved. 

So I’m gonna have to touch you. Even though I’m telling you how great you are, I’m going to have to give you some form of touch. Right? So you feel loved. 

And usually when that person starts getting their love tank filled up, they are then going to want to fill the other person’s love tank as well. But what’s important is that you understand, for that example, what your love language is and understand what your partner’s love language is. It’s the same with your financial situation. 

[00:19:50] You have to understand what your dominant financial language is, and most importantly understand what your partner’s financial language is, and then start communicating to them in their language to help them understand where you are and what you want them to know. And I give great scenarios on how to communicate, whether it’s a saver speaking to a spender, spender to a saver, saver to an investor, you know, spender to a giver. I give all of the scenarios and then give you an example of a conversation so you know what words to use and what words not to use when you’re having these type of conversations. 

But once you start speaking in your partner’s financial language, you’ll notice that the controversy, or the cash controversies, will start minimalizing. And then you’ll— you’ll probably get the other person to really start understanding your financial language as well. And be honest with your love language. 

If you’re a spender, it’s OK. I’m a spender. I speak spending. So I need us not to use these words. Let’s find another word. Because even though it’s semantics, words matter because they trigger emotions.

MICHELLE: Yes. I love this. This is very good. And I— and I really like your emphasis on making sure that you, as a good partner or spouse or whatever, are making an attempt to speak your partner’s financial language. And I think going back to the example of love languages makes a lot of sense. 

Because I’ve seen a lot of folks use that as a way to make like requests or demands of partners, to say, I require touch. And therefore, you must provide me this thing that I need, as opposed to saying, I want to be a good partner, spouse, or loved one, or family member, or insert, you know, role here. And so how can I best support you? I think that’s a really important distinction.

TARRA: Mm-hmm. And so when I was dating a guy— and, of course, he— most— you know, I can’t say most men. But a lot of men, one of their dominant love languages is touch, right? And so mine was acts of service. Right?

So I felt loved when they did something for me, even if it’s bringing me a glass of water or, you know, paying attention to my needs. And so I would— in order for me to get him to understand how I needed to be loved, I needed to first love him in his way. So once I loved him in his way, and he felt loved, I just put in there, you know, I love when you do these things for me. That makes me feel so loved. 

So I then started teaching him how to love me. But if I did not give him what he needed to feel loved, then he probably wouldn’t have been open to hear what I needed to be loved. And sometimes, it’s that way in relationships. 

And it’s the same thing with finances. You know, I dated a saver. And so I had to tell him, look, I am a spender. And I’m not gonna spend all our money. But when you say these certain words, it produces negative feelings. 

So can we use these words? Or, can we do this so that we can, you know, communicate better? And, you know, once I started asking him as a saver— this is one trick that I used to do. 

I wanted to buy something. I think it was like a big screen TV. And he didn’t feel that we needed any more TVs. Because, at the time, we were living with each other. We didn’t need any more TVs. 

And I pretty much posed the question to him like, you know, your son and my son, they need a TV in their rooms. And, you know, so that means we need a TV. But can you help me shop around to find a TV, you know, a flat screen TV that’s on sale, and that can help us save some money, that keeps us within our budget? 

And so when I— when I hit all of those trigger words for him, which was sale, budget, save, he was open. OK, yeah, we can look around for something like that. So when I was able to communicate to him in his language, he was open to buying the TV versus me saying, hey, I just want to buy another TV.

MICHELLE: Yeah. That’s super neat. Um, any other tips for communication that you’d like to share? Or any other sort of parting words of wisdom before we talk about how folks can find you online?

TARRA: Absolutely. Just be very respectful to not only your financial language, but to others’ financial language. Theirs is just as significant and just as important to them as yours is to yours. And so the best way to minimize those money misunderstandings is to figure out the best way to communicate in their language and then teach them how to communicate in yours.

MICHELLE: Love it. So 4 Financial Languages, that’s the book. I’m going to put a link in the show notes for anybody who wants to check it out and buy it. 

[00:24:50] If you are having difficulty communicating with your loved ones about what you value in terms of your finances, this might be a great resource for you to check out. Give it a read and see whether you can find some good common ground in terms of that language. Tarra, Madam Money, how else can people find you online?

TARRA: They can go to madammoney.com, M-A-D-A-M M-O-N-E-Y dot com. You can also get the book on Amazon, Kindle. And you can get it at madammoney.com. Or you can go to the number 4financiallanguages.com.

MICHELLE: Awesome. Well, folks, you heard it. Go check her out online. Her work is extremely good. Totally recommend it. Other than that, thank you so much for stopping by, Tarra. 

Listeners, thank you for listening. I can’t do this thing that I love without you. So don’t forget, if you haven’t already, go on and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 

Be sure to leave us a comment. Leave us some feedback. We always love hearing from you. But other than that, hope everybody has a wonderful day.

END CREDITS: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Young Scrappy Money podcast. If you want to read about my work as a financial advisor and financial coach, you can do so at www.youngandscrappy.com. That’s www.youngandscrappy.com. Thanks again for listening. 

Made with love by Jesse in Atlanta. [SMOOCHING SOUND]

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