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Young Scrappy Money Podcast Ep. 025: Achieving Money Mindfulness with Psychology Expert Tallia Deljou

podcast Sep 29, 2019

When it comes to making better financial decisions, mindset is key! Positive psychology expert Tallia Deljou joins us as we discuss mindset work, how to unpack your thought patterns, and the various tools and strategies folks can use to help challenge and rewrite some of those thought patterns.

Resources from this episode:

Full transcript:

INTRO: [00:00:00] Hello. And welcome to the Young Scrappy Money podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Waymire. And each week, I’ll be bringing you tips and tricks to help you take control of your finances as well as interviews with people who made big financial changes in their own lives. So join us. And we’ll help you get your financial s**t together.

MICHELLE: Hello, everybody. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Young Scrappy Money podcast. I’m so excited to have you with me today. Y’all know that I have been going through a lot of changes in my financial life personally. We bought a house. There are some big goals on the horizon that I’m really excited to tell you about but can’t share just yet.

But those goals require money, financial goals. Been trying to get my health back together. Been seeing a personal trainer. There’s just a lot that’s going on in my life and a lot that’s going on with my finances. And with so much going on, I’m really coming to realize that the way that I’m thinking about my money, the way that I’m kind of planning things, becomes more important than ever.

We’ve talked about money mindsets on this podcast in the past. But it was just me, sharing my feelings, sharing my insights. And I’m really excited because, this week, we’re gonna cover the same topic but with actual expert advice.

That’s right, folks. I have Tallia Deljou with me today. She is a coach and positive psychology expert who helps women elevate their quality of life and find wholeness. She does one-on-one coaching. She has this badass Inner Work Circle program and basically gives folks the tools they need to cultivate deeper relationships to themselves so that they can show up more fully in their work and life.

So she has this podcast as well, Sincerely, Me. It has been featured on Forbes. Her work has also been featured across Fortune, Real Simple, Business Insider, Well+Good. She is all over the place. And so I’m so, so grateful and excited that she’s also here on the Young Scrappy Money podcast. Welcome, Tallia.

TALLIA: Yay. Thank you so much, Michelle. It’s so great to be here.

MICHELLE: It’s great to have you. So we talked about the fact that you are a coach and positive psychology expert. How did you get into this type of work?

TALLIA: Yeah. So there was always kind of a seed in the back of my mind that I would end up pursuing something in the world of psychology. So I majored in psychology in undergrad. I went to American University for college out in DC and ended up getting a job as a leadership consultant for a sorority actually out of college, uh, which was like honestly the best year of my life and probably comes with a lot of judgments. 

Because people are like, so you like went and hung out with sorority girls for a year? Um, pretty much yeah. But I ended up doing a lot of leadership development work and coaching work with women in the collegiate space, helping them really figure out what was next, and how to kind of create a path with clarity and confidence, and recognize all that they were already contributing, and just kind of regain a sense of self-worth and, um, a deeper connection to themselves before making any decisions about what they wanted life to look like. 

And as I was traveling and consulting for that year, I was reading a lot. I was on the road every six days on an airplane and ended up picking a book called Flow by someone named Mike Csikszentmihalyi. It’s like such a mouthful of a last name. 

But he— I like turned to the back of the book and was reading about him. And basically, the book was about the concept of flow, which is the idea behind optimal experience and what makes us thrive and flourish in life. And I just— like five pages in, I was like, this— this is what I need to go learn more about.

This is everything that I’m naturally already asking so many questions about. This guy has the answers. I need to go find where he is and go study under him. And so I ended up applying to grad school for a positive psychology degree, a master’s degree in positive psychology, which again is kind of the science and study of optimal experience, what makes life meaningful, what contributes to a high quality of life.

Um, and then specifically for me, it was more so in the context of career work and mindset stuff. So that’s really brought me to where I am today in terms of the work I do. For the past five or so years, I have been the co-founder of Mavenly + Co. where we’ve supported women as a career and business platform through coaching content conferences that you and I met at last year. 

And I have recently broken off to pursue coaching in a little bit of a deeper way. So it’s not so much focused on, what’s next? What’s the job? But more so on questions like, what does it mean to live a life of significance? You know, why am I not really feeling fulfilled on a deeper level, even if I have the job, if I’m making the money? Um, so that type of inner work and self-discovery work is where my head and my heart is now through the programs that I’m doing with— with women on their journeys.

[00:05:11] MICHELLE: That’s amazing. And, yeah, so Tallia and I did meet at this conference. Um, I was a— I was a sponsor. And it was super fun. Um, and I remember you talking a little bit about flow then as well, if my memory serves me correct.

TALLIA: Mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: Which is definitely one of those concepts that I’ve heard of and, again, a name that I had never heard said out loud. Um, for folks of you following along, and you just caught Flow, and then you heard by so-and-so and so-and-so, um, I will be putting all of the show notes and resources that we mention in this episode. So if you’re listening, head over to a computer or mobile device, youngandscrappy.com/blog. 

All of our podcast episodes are there with transcripts and resources. So I’m sure we’ll be talking about Flow a little bit more. And we’ll be talking about all kinds of other stuff. Um, don’t worry about writing down those names. You can find them on our— on our website. 

So I’m— I’m particularly excited to pick your brain today. Because, as I mentioned, I really wanna get your positive psychology-based perspective on money mindsets. So maybe let’s start with the basics. Uh, what is mindset work? And why is it so important? 

TALLIA: Totally. So mindset work really comes from the perspective that you can, in fact, control your thoughts. And a lot of us don’t recognize how— how much power we really have when it comes to our thought patterns and how much our thoughts influence how we feel, what we do or don’t do, and then consequently the results we see in our life. So mindset work is really getting to a place where you understand the thought patterns you are kind of living in and figuring out the tools and strategies to really challenge some of those thought patterns.

Because we tend to be very fear-based in the way we live. From just like a very obvious survival instinct, our minds tend to go to worst-case scenario. We tend to live in these doubtful stories and— and sometimes negative— you know, that’s where kind of negative self-talk comes from. And so again, mindset work is really sitting down and understanding how your mind works and exercising that muscle of control so that you can better— better feel, better take action, and kind of see better results in a way that you feel like you’re in the driver’s seat of. 

So when it comes to money mindset specifically, this might sound super simple, but money mindset is basically the combination of how you think about money, how you feel about money, and how you behave with your money. It’s digging into the stories we’ve created around money. It’s digging into the consequence of those stories— positive and negative. 

It’s digging into where those stories come from, who they belong to. Are they your own stories and fears and insecurities? Are they someone else’s? Where did you learn those patterns? Um, so it’s really, yeah, getting to like the nitty-gritty, the deeper levels and layers of what your money stories are and how those are showing up in your life today and affecting you both positively and maybe not so positively. 

MICHELLE: I love that. And that’s— that’s one of the better definitions I’ve heard of a money mindset, which I don’t know if you can remember the exact phrase. It was like the way that we think about money, the way that we interact with money. And there was one other piece to it. 

TALLIA: Yeah. So it’s think, feel, and interact. 

MICHELLE: Think, feel, and interact. I love this. 

TALLIA: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: I think, as a money coach, a lot of times people come to me because they specifically have a negative money mindset. 

TALLIA: Yeah. 

MICHELLE: So, I mean, I can tell— I can tell you firsthand that the amount of guilt and shame and anxiety and fear and stress that people feel about money is so, so overwhelming. But I love that your— your point about mindset work is it’s really about kind of learning to understand and kind of control our own thoughts better to get better outcomes. 

TALLIA: Mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: What valuable work. 

TALLIA: Yeah. Especially— I mean, again, like most of us do have money mindsets that need a lot of work, myself included. Right? Like I— I know how valuable this work is because I needed it so desperately myself— and still do. Like it’s— it’s kind of ever-evolving, never-ending work. But we all tend to attach a lot of shame and guilt and, again, these kind of like nonconducive, negative stories to money. 

And we have to understand where they came from and recognize that it doesn’t have to be that way. Money doesn’t have to feel hard. Money is— and I’m sure you’ve talked about this before too. It’s like money is a neutral, objective piece of paper. You then are the one who attaches judgment, thought, feeling, and action to it. 

[00:10:02] And you can decide what you want those things to be. But what we have to be able to do is take a step back and evaluate, what’s going on with money for me right now— again, mentally, emotionally, physically? And what am I good with? What’s supporting my success? And what am I maybe needing to challenge a little bit and make some changes around? 

So, yeah, I think it’s— it’s super important to really ask yourself those questions and just start like, step one, what are the feelings you’ve associated to money? Shame, guilt tend to be the most common. Um, but then comes the story of just like, ugh, money is hard. It’s so hard to make money. I hate money. I— you know, money makes me anxious. 

OK, well, there is— there’s your— there’s the red flag. There’s the red flag and the green light to get going on some deep work. Because the longer those stories remain and persist, the longer— the more fuel you’re gonna add to the fire because you’re gonna start looking— the way your mind works is like you’ll start looking for evidence to prove your money story right. 

And the more evidence you find for it, the stronger of a case your mind builds, and the truer you feel like your thoughts are about money— until someone comes in and says, hey, what if that actually isn’t the way it has to be? What if that’s actually not true? What could actually be true instead? 

Um, so again, it kind of puts you back in that driver’s seat and gives you that sense of control and just a little bit more neutrality. Like that’s the goal. Ideally, we feel positively. But at least come to a neutral point where it’s not so charged and negative.

MICHELLE: Yeah. You listed a number of negative money mindsets or negative money thoughts that I’m sure a lot of listeners are familiar with.

TALLIA: Mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: Hey, myself included. We’re all human here. Why don’t you walk us through what you’ve seen in terms of what a healthy money mindset looks like? Can you give us some examples there? 

TALLIA: Totally. And I— I will maybe add a couple to the negative ones just because there are so many. And I think people need to sometimes hear it to recognize, oh, I’m not the only one who thinks that, OK. Um, so a couple more negative ones before I turn into— turn towards the healthy, positive money mindsets. 

I hear this a lot. So in my— in my coaching work, typically the kind of entry point for people is they’re in transition career-wise, don’t really know what they want next for themselves personally and professionally. And so one of the biggest things I hear when it comes to money specifically is, um— is the hesitation people have in admitting that they want more money. And— 

MICHELLE: Oh my gosh, yes.

TALLIA: Yeah, it’s huge. And it’s been like such an interesting theme that’s come up a lot this week, actually. Like in preparation for this podcast, I’m like, man, the universe is throwing money things at people. 

Because I had a conversation with someone Monday or Tuesday. And she works for the government, does, you know, very important, meaningful work, and felt so guilty to bring that piece of guilt back and felt so guilty. Because she was like, I know this is like important work. And I should be happy. But I— I don’t really wanna say this. But I just— I just wanna make more money. 

And I was like, girl, that’s OK. It’s OK to want more money. So much judgment is attached to that. And the best thing to ask yourself is, when you see someone with a lot of money, what are your judgments about them— good and/or bad? 

Um, you know, it’s bad to have a lot of money because having a lot of money makes me selfish, makes me greedy, makes me materialistic. You know, you have to— you have to acknowledge those judgments that you’re holding on to. Because it’s— those are the things that are holding you back from feeling comfortable saying you want more. 

A lot of other limiting beliefs around it is that if and when I make more money, it’s gonna change— like it’s the fear of change, the fear of uncertainty. What is it gonna mean for my relationships? What is it gonna mean for the way I’m perceived? What is it gonna mean for the changes that are gonna come from more money? 

So I could talk about that for days. Uh, but in terms of healthy money mindset, I think it’s, again, recognizing the thoughts you’re attaching to money are that money is a neutral object. And I can choose what to think, feel, and do with it or about it. 

Other healthy money mindsets, and just kind of mindsets in general that I feel like are at the core of all of this work, are— you can almost think of it as mantras. Like, I am deserving. I am worthy. And I can want more. Like to have that be kind of at the core of all of your mindsets, whether it’s related to money or otherwise. I think that’s where a lot of the work needs to take place is feeling deserving and worthy of what we want and of wanting in general. 

Other healthy money mindsets come from a place of recognizing that wanting more money, having more money, doesn’t make me selfish. In fact— and this is a lot of what I’ve gathered from— one of my favorite books that I recommend to everyone is Jen Sincero’s book You Are a Badass at Making Money.

[00:15:06] MICHELLE: Yes. 

TALLIA: What she does— 

MICHELLE: That’s the good s**t right there.

TALLIA: Oh my gosh. That— 

MICHELLE: It’s so good. 

TALLIA: That like honestly changed— like turned my money mindset around. And for the first time ever in my life, I like had such a clear sense of focus and like good energy around money. I set a— I set a goal for myself financially in my business. And it doubled by the end of the month. 

And every time I go back to her book and set goals and like clear the energy and crap around money, it’s almost like— and I don’t know how much this language resonates with folks who are listening. But like the universe literally responded in such an abundant way and was like, thank you for doing this work, Tallia. I’m not only gonna help you achieve your goal, but I’m gonna like bring it back at you twofold. 

And for me, a lot of my personal work has been creating kind of a direct and clear relationship with money without anyone else involved. Because I’ll be very transparent about the fact that for a very, very, very, very long time, up until very recently, I was very supported by my parents financially. I went straight from being in school my whole life, graduating grad school, and starting a business with a partner— recently broke off to start my own business. 

So financially, I like— I’m very grateful to say that I’ve had a lot of support. But that also affected my money mindset because I felt like I couldn’t be independent or free on my own. And, um, anyways, all that to say that it is about being able to recognize that money is a neutral object;  that you are the one attaching the judgments to it; um, and that when you do the work to recognize that money is not selfish but in fact is the thing that enables you to be the biggest, best, most like expanded version of yourself because you no longer have these stories or things holding you back, it actually enables you to be of more service to more people. 

So the more money you have, it’s not that like, oh, now I can go buy a bunch of nice things— although, great, nothing wrong with that. I bought myself a very nice gift this past week. And it was a huge mental shift for me to take. I took friends with me. We like made this whole day out of it. 

Um, but it’s— it’s that I’m now able to actually show up, physically standing a little bit more taller because I know that, by doing this work, money mindset work, and by making more money, I’m actually— I’m a better person for it. I’m a better— I’m a better coach. I’m more able to offer things for free to people if they’re in need and can’t— and don’t have, you know, access to the types of resources they need. 

It allows me to do better work for more people. Um, so in that sense, with that story in mind, like the least— the most selfish thing you can do is not make more money. The most selfish thing you can do is not do money mindset work. Because you’re holding— you’re holding so much power within you that people need. And when you can come at it from that perspective, I think it kind of like— it gets you out of your own way and gets your eyes on the prize of like impact, and really doing what you’re here to do, and being of service. 

And money’s just a tool. Money’s just a tool, a neutral tool to help you become more of your truest, biggest version of yourself. Um, and that was a big takeaway that I had from her book. 

MICHELLE: I wanna get back to something that you said about worthiness.

TALLIA: Mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: Because I think that’s really worth dwelling on.

TALLIA: Yeah.

MICHELLE: I’ve noticed that the tie between money and worthiness is a tricky one. Because if you don’t feel like you’re worthy of money, you never feel comfortable asking for more money at work, even if you are being massively underpaid. 

TALLIA: Yeah.

MICHELLE: I have a client who just got a new job and like just accepted, kind of same area, same field or whatever. But she was in a position where she hadn’t gotten a raise— like functionally not gotten a real raise in like the whole seven years that she had been there, despite massive cost-of-living increases in that area. So just by switching companies, they basically gave her a $40,000 pay raise. 

TALLIA: Yeah.

MICHELLE: And the first thing she said to me was, I can’t believe it. I don’t deserve this. 

TALLIA: Mmm.

MICHELLE: And I was like, dude, what are you talking about? You have busted your ass to build a career that’s awesome and interesting. Absolutely. Nobody deserves this more than you. 

And I feel like there’s something really valuable when you’re able to give yourself those kind of props and say, you know what? I worked really hard for this. And it’s OK for me to enjoy it. 

TALLIA: Mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: I’ve noticed similar things happening— I mean, that’s a, you know, salaried position type example. 

TALLIA: Right.

MICHELLE: But I’ve also noticed that money and worthiness really come into play for entrepreneurs. We are terrified of charging what we’re worth. We’re terrified of, you know, putting our prices where they need to be in order to support ourselves. Because we don’t think we’re worth it. 

TALLIA: Mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: Or, who would possibly pay us for this knowledge? I mean, I feel like a lot of people are sort of shortchanging themselves based on this fear that they’re not worthy of receiving money. 

[00:20:00] TALLIA: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this could— we could talk about this for hours. Um, the first thing that I do with my clients, whether they’re entrepreneurs, full-time employees, unemployed, like whatever, whatever it looks like— well, really it’s four. The four, I have them write letters.

There is no surprise that my podcast is called Sincerely, Me. I’m really big in like personal— obviously personal development, reflection, and writing letters to yourself. The four letters I ask every single person I work with to write all tie to the idea of worthiness. 

The first is a letter to fear, talking to fear and seeing what comes up. What is fear trying to do for you? What is fear holding you back from saying, thinking, doing, feeling? What purpose is it serving for you in your life, if anything? 

Um, and then how can you come at it with a little bit more gratitude, recognizing, you know, fear is just there to keep you safe at the end of the day? So why are we working so hard against it when we could just be working with it? At the end of the day knowing we all want— you know, me and fear want the same thing— my survival and my success. 

Um, so “Dear Fear” is that first letter. And then the two biggest ones— again, I’m pretty sure Jen talks about it in her book— is “Dear Money” and “Dear Tallia,” back from money in response to me. 

MICHELLE: Ooh, that’s a good one. 

TALLIA: That—

MICHELLE: I— I make people write letters to money quite a bit. But I have not made folks write letters to themselves from money yet. And that’s about to change.

TALLIA: Oh, yeah.

MICHELLE: Sorry, coaching clients.

TALLIA: Oh, yeah. Yeah, no. And that is— what’s interesting is that the letter to money, there are always themes, patterns. Most folks recognize, once they— once they put pen to paper and talk— start talking to money, realize how negative the relationship is. Um, but that’s also the point of this letter, of all the letters I mentioned, is recognizing that it’s a relationship. 

You and fear have a relationship. You and money have a relationship. You and yourself have a relationship. Your sense of self-worth is tied to all those relationships. Your relationship to yourself, your relationship to fear, your relationship to money, all of it has to do with how you feel about yourself and your sense of worth. 

Um, so that’s a great place to start. And I think, again, obviously having a coach kind of observe, point things out, walk you through it, hold you accountable to what comes up is super important. But that is the best way to kind of get a pulse on where your sense of worth is, what— again, what the fears are that are tied to it. 

Is it a fear of judgment, a fear of what other people think? You know, how is your sense of worth tied to that? So much can come to light based on a very few simple letters. The fourth letter— um, so again, it was letter to fear, letter to money, letter back from money to you. 

And then the fourth is a letter— a letter to yourself from yourself. Um, that could be like present self to present— it could be like current self to present self. It could be future self to current self. It could be past self to present self. 

You can kind of play around with whatever feels the most powerful. But, um, that is also something we tend to not do is cultivate our relationship to ourselves and give ourselves the attention that we desperately need. Um, and again, all super tied to the idea of worthiness and what we really think about who we are and what we deserve in life.

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MICHELLE: Those are great exercises for really digging into what your— what your mindsets look like and kind of how you’re currently thinking about things. And I also like that you pointed out earlier one of the other great ways to figure out what money mindset you have, or kind of where your head’s at, is to just do more of a free association brainstorm and think about what sorts of thoughts and feelings are coming up for you when you’re thinking about money. 

TALLIA: Mm-hmm.

MICHELLE: So let’s say somebody goes through these exercises, and they see some stuff that they don’t like. 

TALLIA: Yeah.

MICHELLE: And they realize that they’ve got some mindsets that need a little bit of work or need a little bit of adjusting. How can somebody cultivate a better money mindset? How do you improve it? 

TALLIA: Yeah. So again, first up is like, what’s the existing state of the mindset? Right? You have to know what you’re— where you’re starting. What’s the— what’s the baseline? Um, and then it’s really as simple as— so I’m really big in storytelling and like recognizing that, again, you have the power to choose your thoughts. 

And so, for me, what that looked like, in terms of like the steps I took to cultivating a better money mindset, was writing those letters, um, and then separately writing down almost like a chapter from a book, you know, here’s my current money story. I currently believe that money is hard. I currently have a lot of guilt around the fact that my parents still support me, and I’m like, you know, in my late 20s. 

[00:25:10] My beliefs around money are negative. My beliefs around money make me feel anxious. Um, you know, I— another story I have around money— and this is— this was a few years ago, as I was writing this— was that, you know, until I’m able to make my own money, um, it’s always gonna feel bad. I’m never gonna feel complete freedom. 

People who have a lot of money— again, the stuff I’ve already mentioned, like people who have a lot of money create jealousy for other people. I don’t want people to envy me for having a lot of money. I don’t wanna create pain for people because I then become a point of comparison. 

The list— the list can go on. Those are just examples of what can come up for folks. Um, so that’s the old story. And literally like on paper, write, here’s the current story. Write it down. Cross out “Current Story” and write “Old Story.” 

On a separate piece of paper, title it “New Story.” And you’re literally just writing a new story. Here’s what I want my story to be instead. Again, it just goes back to the simple fact that you have the power to create the story. What’s the current story? If you don’t like it, if it’s not helping you, tell a new one. 

Write a new one. Create a new one for yourself. And start thinking about the consequence of living in the new story. If you were to believe the new story, how would things change for you? How much better would things feel? Think about that, the positive consequence of making that change. 

And then on the flip side, look at that negative story, the current story/old story. And ask yourself, what would the consequence be if I didn’t change this story? Where would I be in a year? If you can create that kind of— the two ends of that spectrum— good story, bad story, old story, new story— and ask yourself again, if I stayed in the existing story, what would the consequence to that be? 

Because if there’s no consequence to you, if you’re like, yeah, things will be fine, you’re probably not gonna change your— you’re not gonna do anything about your mindset. You’re gonna stick— stick to the same mindset, live in the same patterns. Because you feel no real consequence of staying there. Um, but there has to be a consequence to not making the change for you to actually do something about it. 

And then— and then again, creating the vision for, if I do start living in this new story, if I do start making the money I wanna be making, here’s the positive impact of that on myself, in my own life, on other people, in the world. Make it— make it bigger than you. Get yourself out of it. Take your— take the ego out of it and make it about— it is— it’s about something so much bigger. 

Um, so getting to that place of being able to really, tangibly, and specifically visualize the details of life with a better money story, with a better and cleaner relationship to money. And just sit in how that feels. And let that kind of feeling just sit in your body and really— and recognize that you deserve to feel good. 

Like end of day, if nothing else is true, what I know to be true is that we all deserve to feel good. So pick the story that feels good and envision what life looks like, feels like in that story. And then— and then start untangling, unraveling. 

But again, it’s a simple storytelling exercise. What’s the existing, current old? And what’s the new that feels better, that releases some of the baggage that you’ve been holding onto for probably lots of reasons? 

MICHELLE: Yeah. Thank you for being vulnerable just now. I appreciate you giving some— some examples from your own life. Because I— I mean, a lot of what you said really resonated with me. 

I’m very grateful to have parents who have nurtured me, who have encouraged me to do the work that I do, and, you know, supported me throughout college and even a little bit in grad school as well too. I never had a student loan. Um, that was a big source of my imposter syndrome as a coach to like help people with their finances and never have had to take out a student loan. 

TALLIA: Yeah.

MICHELLE: I was like, oh my gosh, why would anybody possibly pay me for this work? 

TALLIA: Totally.

MICHELLE: So I— I totally feel that. And I’m, you know— like peer to peer, I’m super proud of the mindset work that you’ve done. That’s really awesome.

TALLIA: Thank you. I appreciate that a lot. And, you know, something else that I really wanna talk about, um, is the power of expanders, if anyone listens to like Lacy Phillips or anyone who’s big in the world of manifesting. Um, the power of expanders, so having an expander in your life is basically having someone in your life who’s living in the new story that you wanna be living in. 

Um, and for a long time— and most of us tend to surround ourselves by people who have similar mindsets as us, who kind of validate and affirm our stories, who perpetuate our way of thinking and feeling and being. And there’s nothing wrong with that— except that it keeps us kind of stuck where we are. Um, so if you’re looking to make shifts, especially mentally, find people around you— and you don’t have to like personally know them. 

[00:30:12] They could be authors. They could be politicians. They could be— you know, it could be Oprah. It could be Ellen. It could be anyone who’s showing you that there’s another way to think, feel, and be in the world than the way you’re thinking, feeling, and being in your world, if you’re— if you’re feeling called to make a change because things just feel heavy and a little bit not based in truth for you. 

Um, I’ve recently surrounded myself by kind of just like a new— and being at The Lola, where you and I share a coworking space, has definitely been a factor in that. But there’s one person specifically who I will also gladly give a shoutout to. Her name is Lillian Gray. She’s also at The Lola, and she’s a stylist. 

Her and I have been working closely together, um, on this class we’re teaching called “Fierce Love” and have just built a really amazingly beautiful fast friendship. Um, but one of the biggest things she has shown me how to do is embrace my sense of worthiness and show up in a way that, again, affirms the fact that like you wanting more, you wearing the heels, you wearing the diamonds, you like showing up in the way you want to is actually gonna help other people and is gonna— is gonna kind of like show them the light in terms of like— you showing up in your brightest light, in that aura that like feels authentic to you, shows other people that it’s possible for them to do the same and to kind of like rise to that level. 

And she’s been such a model for me in that sense, in terms of her— the way she shows up physically, mentally, emotionally, but has also given me permission to want more things for myself and to recognize that like, sure, you can be in the helping profession. You can do good work for other people. But you can also do well. You can also have nice things.

Just because you’re a helper and a caregiver and a nurturer doesn’t mean you have to come from nothing or can’t want nice things. Um, and she has been such a cheerleader and champion and has really celebrated my growth, my— kind of these different milestones I’ve gone through mentally, financially. It’s important to have people who can, again, like expand your way of being around it but also celebrate your growth as you’re moving through the different stages of transformation on your own. Um, I could talk about expanders for days too, so I’ll stop there. 

MICHELLE: Oh, I love it. I’ve never heard that term before. I know that— I mean, I definitely have those people in my life right now. One of my mentors is a— is a fellow financial coach based out of Arizona, Kelsa, who is wonderful and has just kind of taught me what is possible in the world of financial coaching. And I just feel like I wouldn’t even be having these conversations without people like her who kind of point me in the direction of like, hey, Michelle, spread your wings and fly. 

TALLIA: Yeah, totally. 

MICHELLE: So I have one more kind of like personal question for if you don’t mind sharing.

TALLIA: Yeah. 

MICHELLE: I know you talked a lot about your growth. So what’s one personal mindset that you have now that you really worked on and that you’re particularly proud of?

TALLIA: Yeah. So this one’s been a big one for me, um, and rooted in just like a lot of old patterns, old ways of thinking, and just kind of learned behaviors that— you know, yes, I am a coach. And I help people through it. But I have my own coach. 

I have my own therapist. I have my own energy healer. Like I have a whole team of people who— who support me as well. And for me, the fear and like limiting belief when it comes to money mindset has always been that, um— actually, I haven’t really— like I haven’t put words to this. 

So I’m kind of thinking out loud with this. But, um, it— I think I also get a little nervous about like how it’s gonna be perceived. But that’s probably— it’s good for me to be saying it out loud. 

Um, I think, for me, I’ve— I grew up in a very wealthy family. I was very fortunate to have nice things, and to go to a private school my whole life, and to, you know, to your point, like be supported through my education, through grad school. And, um, there was definitely a sense of like, what did I do to deserve this? This money isn’t mine. It doesn’t belong to me. 

And it almost felt kind of like I wanted to— I always wanted to justify things to people, even with— I just got married in May. And my husband bought me the most beautiful ring. And it, for a long time, was like uncomfortable for me to wear this ring in public. And I remember the first time— like the first week we got engaged, I kept like turning it around and hiding it. 

[00:34:58] Because I felt so uncomfortable with this like, um— I don’t know— something physical that showed— that was in some way like an indication of my wealth, or like my financial state, or my fiance’s or my family’s financial state. Um, and I would be so quick to justify. Oh, well, like, you know, my best friend’s mom is the jeweler, so he got a great deal. 

It’s like why— what am I assuming people are thinking? And a lot of it for me was assuming that it— like it made other people uncomfortable, um, that me playing— I have this idea of like playing small versus playing big. And I would tend to play very small, especially in the financial sense. Because I felt like me really owning it, me stepping into it, would make other people feel uncomfortable about themselves, or that they would judge me for it, or that they would think I was undeserving or spoiled or a princess or whatever other crap I attached to it that were totally based on assumptions. 

Um, so a big shift I’ve made recently that I’ve been super proud of is like no longer justifying, um, and being really proud of my parents for the lives they’ve been able to build. As immigrants, you know, it’s— there’s so much there. And I think I’ve been so embarrassed partly with, again, this idea that like, well, I— you know, I haven’t worked hard for— I haven’t worked hard for the money. And it’s always kind of been easy for me. 

And is that wrong? Is that bad? Like, again, who am I to help people through this if I’ve never actually experienced hardship? Um, but we all experience hardship in different ways. And it’s all relative. 

And I think, for me again, it’s like— it’s recognizing that it’s a story I’m telling and that me playing small actually serves nobody. Um, so I’m no longer justifying those types of things. And I’m— this sounds silly. 

But like in the way I’m showing up, Lillian is very encouraging with the way I dress and like, you know, wearing the heels. Wear the nice clothes. Buy that piece of jewelry that feels a little indulgent. You deserve the things you want. 

So those— those have been kind of the most, I guess, recent shifts I’ve made that I’m very proud of— and just making phone calls to actually start talking about my financial situation. I reached out to you. I’ve reached out to a couple folks who I’m— like I— there’s still hesitation. 

But I’m like, I need to feel comfortable talking about money, looking at my finances. And for the longest time, if the topic of money came up, it would really like make my stomach turn. I would cry. I would feel so incompetent, uneducated, like unqualified to do the things I was doing. 

Um, so just taking the step of like reaching out to financial advisors and coaches who can help me actually— from a business standpoint, like I’ve never been— I’ve previously been in business with a partner. And she handled most of the financial aspect of the business. So like there’s a lot I have to learn. Um, so just making those phone calls to start at least initiating the process of getting help in that sense has also been a humongous step for me.

MICHELLE: That’s awesome. Um, so you’ve been a total wealth of information, um, pun 110% intended. Do you have any other tips for our listeners either mindset-related, money-related, or otherwise? 

TALLIA: Yeah. Um, oh, that I haven’t gotten a chance to mention. Let’s see. Um, this obviously ties back to a lot of what I said. But when you think about wanting more money, um, get— get specific. I think that’s the really important piece here. 

Get specific on exactly how much you want, and why you want it, and what you want it for, whether it’s for yourself or for other people. Um, and write it down. Like vision boards, I’m a full, firm believer in vision boards. I have one sitting next to my bed. I have the number of people I want to buy a certain program from me. 

I have the price point I want to start selling my services at, which back in January was like three to five times more than what I was charging and is now what I’m charging. Like it’s super powerful to affirm the things you want, to decide what it is that you want your life to look like, and then give yourself no other option but to make it happen. Um, so those visual indicators, and those symbols, and those like physical reminders definitely go a long way. 

And then just creating accountability for it, you know, whether it’s sharing with a friend, sharing with a partner, find someone who you can actually talk to about this stuff. Um, again, like Michelle is a great resource, right? Like find people who make you— who make you feel safe talking about— talking about money, um, and taking away the charge. Right? 

Again, neutral object, take away the charge. Talk about it from a very factual and less emotional perspective. Because the minute we tie the emotion into it is the minute we tend to slip back into old stories. 

[00:39:56] Um, so I’d say get super specific, create a vision board, write things down of what you want and then, again, why you want them. And be careful not to associate— one thing we also tend to do is like, well, when I have this much money, I’ll be happy. Right? We like put a lot of power in— we give money a lot of power in making us feel a certain way. 

Just kind of catch yourself in saying things like, well, it’s only gonna be when I have money that I’ll be able to do this, or feel this way, or what have you. Because it may be— it may be the money that will help you. And it may also not be the money. So, um, just be careful in, again, how much power you give to money itself. But the more specific you can get on the intention behind it, I think the easier of a time you’ll have in actually creating the goals to help you get there.

MICHELLE: That’s wonderful. Awesome. So folks, if you’re listening, and you wanna find Tallia and hire her and give her your money— and that way, you can grow in your abundance together. How can people find you online? 

TALLIA: Yes. So I have a couple different ways. One is Instagram @talliadeljou. And then my podcast is a great way to just start getting some content from me. I have yet to really start a blog. And I know I have so much content. To your point, Michelle, it’s like if you have— if you have a podcast, you can easily create a blog from just transcripts. 

But one— one thing at a time. So I have a podcast on both iTunes and Spotify called Sincerely, Me. It’s all about self-discovery and inner work and what it means to live a life of significance. I would highly recommend starting at— actually, the most recent episode is called “Evolving Through Adversity.” It was with Elyse Archer. We talk all about, you know, when it’s time to make a change, how to, um— how to trust your kind of inner voice when things don’t feel right anymore and how to really take those opportunities to ask yourself who you are and what you want in life. 

Um, and then my website, talliadeljou.com, you’ll see all about my coaching program. So I do private coaching work. But then my bread and butter is a yearlong group called the Inner Work Circle. I run three cohorts of that group a year. 

The next cohort is starting in January, eight to 10 women at a time who go through a full yearlong process of, again, self-discovery and inner work, helping you feel a little bit more safe and deserving and worthy of the things you want. So every week, there is a video lesson that goes out. Once a month, the whole group gets together virtually for a group coaching session. And then twice in the year, we meet for retreats. 

So it’s a whole lot. It’s a big— it’s a big commitment, um, to make to yourself. But I think, at the end of the day, it’s about feeling worthy and deserving enough to invest in yourself. And that, I think, is such a big and scary step for people to make but so critical in our development. 

So those are the biggest— the biggest ways to connect. I always have events, retreats, speaking gigs that come up here and there. So that’s typically announced via social and Instagram. And those are all the ways.

MICHELLE: Awesome. And once again for our listeners, all of our show notes, all of the resources we’ve discussed in this podcast episode, can be found online at youngandscrappy.com/blog. That’s young A-N-D scrappy.com/blog. And so I’ll put everything up there. And it should be pretty easy for you to find Tallia online. 

Um, if you are listening, I would also be so, so greatly appreciative if you give us some love on the social media. So share our episodes. Leave us the comments and the reviews on Apple. A few of you have done that already. And it’s really, really helped get the word out. 

Because the more that I get to, um, see your love, the more that I can convince awesome badasses like Tallia to come on and share their stories with me. So thank you, Tallia, for joining us. Thank you, everybody, for listening. And I hope you have a wonderful weekend. 

TALLIA: Thank you. 

END CREDITS: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Young Scrappy Money podcast. If you want to read about my work as a financial advisor and financial coach, you can do so at www.youngandscrappy.com. That’s www.youngandscrappy.com. Thanks again for listening. 

Made with love by Jesse in Atlanta. [SMOOCHING SOUND]

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